*dons reading daggers*
Can you make a quick post about all the aspects' different symbolic objects?

Sure, I’ll try to make one after I get home from work/class. Though, the Aspect Duality post already has most of it in there.

However, we’re not quite done figuring out the main symbols yet, I’d say. Sure, we have puppets/”false men” for Rage and that phallic/suggestive symbology for Hope, but there are a few gaps still. Like Mind, for which the only thing we have is that coin of Terezi’s…

Hmmmm. Wait a minute.

Heart is symbolized by headgear… What if Mind is symbolized by Heads?

Terezi’s coin has a Good Heads and Bad Heads on each side. H34DS was her First-Guardian wall code.

Gamzee showed evidence of a flip from concern for Heart to a concern for Mind when he uninverted to his true Rage role, which may have something to do with neighboring aspects. And suddenly he was parading a slew of severed heads everywhere. (Wait… to be fair, he stole headgear too. Though that was partially from a Heart player. Maybe there’s little evidence there.)

Dirk’s dichotomic opposite, the subrole he balances with, is that of a “Sylph of Mind”, who would promote/heal/add/give Mind and its influence to others, like he "LOVINGLY IMBUE"s things with artificial intelligence… and he severed and sent Jake his own head.

(Wait, is there a “giving head” joke here besides what Dirk did, that could be phrased to have something to do with Mind? I can’t tell.)

So, Heads. What do you think? Do you agree or disagree? What other evidence have I missed, if this is the case? (Look for text mentions or metaphors involving the word ‘head’ or ‘heads’, too, like losing your head. Maybe include Latula… Oh, and look at DD just in case as well, because we have him pegged as a Mage of Mind for the moment.)

im pretty sure mythology is something you dont need to know about for homestuck cause you figured everything out yourself without knowing how mythology works?? so you didnt need to know it in the first place?

That’s not a fair assessment!

I have not figured everything out. I’ve figured out a bunch of stuff, and when you look at my giant theory pile there isn’t much mythology in it, but that’s because I don’t know mythology stuff to make them, and have to rely on my inbox or other theorists for advice in that area.

Kind of like the Peter Pan in Scarlet post: if LuniasM hadn’t paired up to work on it with me, him having read the novel several times himself, then I’d never have been able to come up with it nor theorize in so much detail.

Eg. the reason you don’t see mythology in my theory pile isn’t because mythology isn’t important in Homestuck. It’s because I don’t know any mythology, so if there IS a bunch of mythology you can use to draw important insights about Homestuck/spec, only a mythologically-inclined theorist would be able to unearth them at all. Like LilDurandal or such.

mspaintadventures(.)com/scraps2/homestuckKS(.)html "I took the reins on story commands, but continued incorporating reader input in other ways."

Yes, but that doesn’t mean that it’s going to be a convoluted mess of reader input that somehow randomly self-generates a bunch of fake inversion foreshadowing. You can’t say a sudden coinci-stew tangled itself up into the comic out of reader intervention then.

Given that MSPA is largely reader-driven, "a messy, spurious, and highly, highly improbable coinci-stew" is a very good descriptor.

Um… almost every shred of evidence for Role Inversion came from Acts 5.1, 5.2 and onward. He shut down the command submission boxes in late Act 4.


Even if Hussie didn't mean for Inversion to be A Thing, it can still be a valid way to interpret the story (unless textually disproven in the gigaupdate), using the Death of the Author model, which he seems to believe in considering he died onscreen.

Yeah I’m never gonna do that. Ever.

Author intent and related meta-analysis is the most powerful tool in our toolkit. I preached it throughout the Romspec threads I founded on the MSPA forums: A good and logically consistent story has to follow certain rules, has rules the author wants to follow re. the tying of loose ends and the progression of character arcs that matter, that we can use and follow to help figure out what happens next. (And of which, romantic arcs were particularly predictable.) Finding hints of author intent, divining potential paths of author intent, weighing likelihoods of competing theories of author intent. Author intent, author intent, author intent!

Regarding inversion specifically, the Rose the Witch theory isn’t just trying to build a spurious correlation. It’s positing that Andrew was intentionally trying to hint at Void inversion, intentionally trying to hint that Witch was her matching inverse class, in ways only meant to become clear much later. And as per the rest of the inversion theories, that he was, say, intentionally placing hints like Aradia being prototyped alongside a frog, like the robo-Aradias chanting “destr0y” in the mini-strife, to prove a later point about these characters’ interactions with their hero roles. It’s not something that’s supposed to live on as a coincidence. The theory is about author intent itself.

It’s all just a messy, spurious, and highly, highly improbable coinci-stew without it.

(Very improbable. I can’t stress the word “unlucky" enough, the idea that so much evidence across the entire comic would fit and it was all just coincidence. That we would have the incredible bad luck for something so complex to fit so well and its source was all just random noise not intended to that effect. Like a monkey with a typewriter hammering out Shakespeare works by mistake.)

When I check the news, I usually use Fark.com, an aggregation site where people pair news links with funny headlines, and the best/funniest ones get approval to air on the main site. Usually I stick to the Politics tab, a consistent way to keep the politics news links you read honest: When there’s inaccurate information, the Fark comments sections next to each linked article — comment sections which can also be funny as hell — often clear up the bullshit and give interesting related links on the issues at hand.

The comments used to be more even-handed, but the 2008 election especially — and the way the US’s right-wing polluted the internet and news with absurd and easily falsifiable statements — drove the entire site’s base far to the left, with unending splashes of small-time right-wing trolls whipping the commenters up into argument after argument.

I like it there. Nice and Lefty, and principled instead of slavering.  :)

But anyway:  In a recent thread where people were arguing with a Libertarian commenter, I posted a big rant I’ve had brewing around in me for a couple years that describes, through simple thought experiment, why you need each given component of government intervention to regulate markets so that they work for the safety and overall benefit of the people involved in them. You might find it an interesting little read, or maybe even borrow the argument from me in another situation.

Anyway, someone in the thread liked it so much that they sponsored me for half a year of Fark’s “TotalFark” subscription service. Which was pretty cool, I wasn’t expecting it at all!

Just thought I’d share that since it happened.

quantumlunatic said:

I’m sorry for the asinine inquiry, but who is Rachel, and what credentials does she have to be making such assured remarks?

(Amongst a slew of other impressive titles like Editor-In-Chief of the new ParadoxSpace site, she happens to be Andrew’s significant other.)

(No, betting against Andrew Hussie’s significant other on a core component of the comic is not a comfortable feeling! But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.)

if it helps search for it, "Andrew said that he started with Light and Breath, and then Time and Space, as the things you need for creation. Light and Breath being the more metaphysical concepts (especially influenced by Western canon/Christian thought, given that that's deeply fused to our culture), Time and Space being the more quantifiable ones."

Ahhh. That’s a much more detailed comment from her, and gives us some very important information, also confirming some details about how/when Andrew went about coming up with the aspect system that I’d suspected but wasn’t sure of.

Here is the complete comment she wrote on reddit:

I’m gonna hop in from here if that’s okay!! This is another good post.

Andrew said that he started with Light and Breath, and then Time and Space, as the things you need for creation. Light and Breath being the more metaphysical concepts (especially influenced by Western canon/Christian thought, given that that’s deeply fused to our culture), Time and Space being the more quantifiable ones.

He didn’t come up with all twelve aspects right away, either; just the first four, and then the others when he got to that part of the story.

Anyway all this is to basically say that god tier aspects really really invite speculation because there is just enough open space to be fascinating—but no test will really do it. You’re better off thinking it over yourself and choosing what feels right to you.

For a while I was going with Heir of Void as a title for myself but after more stuff I decided on Rogue of Void, it works for me. This was actually two years ago when Andrew put together an info thing for himself on GT aspects—so before Roxy I guess.

I guess the takeaway here is that it’s not really about minutiae; like Homestuck the story and Sburb the game, it’s more about character, both in what your title will be and how your role will take shape. No guarantee that two Rogues of Void will have the exact same abilities, they’ll just be very similarly shaped due to their titles.

Also inversion isn’t a thing I beg everyone to please stop saying inversion

And, similarly important, here’s an earlier response of hers that was quoted just before this:

[…] I’m always really curious to see how people go about coming up with their unified god tier title theories but it seems to me that people pull waaaay too much into it—the titles are meaningful, but definitely do not define every aspect of a player/character, and usually aren’t as all-reaching as they’re posited to be. (For instance: Jade was definitely not using space when she put the bunny together; if anything, she was using her faculty for scientific gadgetry. Not every action a character takes or every thought they have is a result or reflection of their class or aspect.)

I have a lot to say about all this, though I still stand with inversion theory! My extensive comments under the cut.

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What makes you thin )(IC sent out the ring?

She had it delivered to Roxy’s cell. The only reason for that would be that she, or quite likely her boss (winding item traversals like this are more his style), wanted it to make a circuit around the Furthest Ring once it was lost by her, and thus end up somewhere where it would cause something else to happen.

(I’m assuming the rings are the same by the way.)

Wouldn't it make sense if HIC was the one to steal the ring from Aranea, being that she is the only applicable thief of life?

Didn’t she set the ring on the course that led it to Aranea, intentionally, in the first place?

Whatever is planned for the ring, by Lord English or otherwise, it almost certainly isn’t going to end up back in the Condesce’s hands so soon, even though she likely had little idea that Aranea would use it.